The things that make me laugh, weep, and live.
Can we get a little help in here?!
Published on April 19, 2004 By Shulamite In Religion
Wow. I was going to sit down and write a very different blog. I may still do it. We'll see. But I was reading some of y'all's stuff (we do double apostrophes in Texas, it's okay) and realized we've got a wee bit of a problem.

You guys who don't regard the Bible as truth have been screaming advice to some folks and some folks just don't understand. I think there's a real need for some loving, kind advice to be given from one Christian to others who genuinely desire that their point of views be heard. I know you guys want it to be respected, too. I mean that's all any of us want -- a little common respect, after all. Maybe I can help.

Teacher, I hope I can pick on you a bit. It's not because of anything in particular. You just seem like someone who'll reply and I'd rather have someone who'll reply than someone who'll just get their feelings hurt and pout and take their toys and leave. So I'm talking to you, but only because I originally intended this as a reply to your blog on PB Abortion but it became too long. My forward apologies.

Teacher -- learn this: Some people don't respect the Word of God. Respect that. Read Mere Christianity and learn how to get your point accross without always using the Bible. Yes, its sacred and holy. But know why you believe what you believe and be able to explain it without circular reasoning coming from the Bible. We all need that. Try a few books by Lee Strobl. (Misspelled?). I recommend "The Case for Easter." Another book, "Letters to a Skeptic" is good. (one of the few good ones by that author.)

Finally, remember John 8:47 says "he that is of God hears God's words: you do not hear them because you do not belong to God." Don't frustrate yourself. Yeah, it doesn't return void, I know, but ease up a little, hoss.

Finally, let all you do be done with love. Your voice is just like clanging symbols without love. investigate your motives. Is it out of love? or is it to prove a point? Is it to win?

The rest of you guys: is it just me, or do Christians come accross on this site as no fun whatsoever? As unapproachable? As frightening even? Now, admittedly, it's not just us... Jeremy's a little scary. (Just kidding Jer). But come on! Loosen up! Why were you given life if you don't love it? If you've given your life back to Christ are you telling me (the world) He's devoid of joy? Geez. Don't make us out to be so unattractive. Look, I know lots of Christians. Lots of non-christians. Both have tons of fun. I had a blast on a ski trip with my church pals this winter. The secret to witnessing is do they want what you've got? If you're pouty and jabby, then the answer is no.

Are you really mirroring Chrsit? Or are you more like a pharisee? Religosity rather than grace? Strictness rather than forgiveness? Harshness rather than mercy? What fruits are coming across here? Do people feel good to be with you? And I know for a fact I can disagree with someone big time but still enjoy their company.

Don't lose your passion. Passion is good. Passion is greek for suffering. (Pathos). I know. It'll burn in you if you don't get it out. That's great! But do it with love. If I truly thought you guys weren't giving a hill of beans I'd not bother with this. I'd probably not care. But be sure you pray up before you do stuff. Jesus even said I dont' do anything I don't see the Father doing. Where do you see the Father working? Is it getting people riled up? I'm all for a good argument. But only with fair ammo. It has to be logical, not circular or based on something people don't accept at premise. Your premises: The Bible is True, God exists, God is Good, and Jesus is Messiah. Others premises: the Bible may not be the word of God, God may not exist, if he does he might not be good, and Jesus was just a teacher. See how working off your premises does nothing for you with people who have other premises? Unless you can get there logically or just make it attractive, it's moot, I think. It just says, "YUCK" to people reading it. It sounds dogmatic rather than warm and welcoming.

Teacher and the gang: teach. but do so with love, logic, patience, and endurance. Laugh a little more. And remember your fruit! THAT'S what's attractive!

Comments
on Apr 20, 2004
You are completely correct. I admit that I haven't been much fun. It isn't because of my faith but because of overdoing. So I have taken a vacation and done mostly fun. Just thinking about going back to my life, wears me out. There is so much to do and so few to do it. But I will try to lighten up and if I get too serious, use the time which I go to Salem to visit my Mom, daughter, sister-inlaw and brother to have fun.

I'm also coming back with a hobby. I'm goint to start making charm bracelets with bead, and one of a kind earrings. I also bought black paper and gel pens and am going to journal using that paper. It may be mundane stuff but it looks good.
on Apr 20, 2004
Hi Shulamite,
Now I am not religious and I really do not mean any offence with my questions/comments below but maybe in the light of your statement 'The Bible is True' you can give me your interpretation:

Leviticus25:
44 'And your male slave and your female slave whom you have shall be from the nations who are all around you, you shall buy them as male slave or female slave'
Exodus21:
2 'When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years And in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.'

Now does this mean I can own slaves but the Hebrew ones only stay for 6 years whereas Canadian and Mexican ones stay forever?


Exodus21:
7 'And when a man sells his daughter for a slave-girl, she shall not go out as the male slaves go out.'

I don't have any daughters but friends do so I guess if times get tough they have an advantage on me.


Exodus35:
2 'Work may be done six days and on the seventh day it shall be holy to you, a sabbath of rest to Jehovah; everyone doing work in it dying shall die.'

It hardly seems fair on the poor guy flipping burgers at McDonalds on Sunday to survive, should I personally take him out or should we contract the job out?


Leviticus11:
10 'But any one that does not have fins and scales in the seas, and in the torrents, of any swarming creature of the waters, and of any creature which lives in the waters; they are to be detested by you.'
11 'Yes, they shall be detested by you; you shall not eat of their flesh and you shall shun their dead bodies.'
22 'these are those you may eat: the locusts according to its kind, and the bald locust according to its kind, and the long horned locust according to its kind, and the short horned grasshopper according to its kind.'

So it sounds like shrimp is out but I can have a good old dish of bald locust creole so things arent so bad


Leviticus15:
19 ΒΆ And if a woman's issue in her flesh is a flow of blood, she shall be in her impurity seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening.
20 And anything on which she lies in her impurity shall be unclean; and anything on which she sits shall be unclean.
21 And whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
22 And whoever touches anything on which she sits shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening.
23 And if it is on the bed, or on anything on which she sits when he touches it, he shall be unclean until the evening.

Not sure how to approach this when we have female guests, maybe I can get the wife to ask discretely.

Looking forward to your answers.....




on Apr 20, 2004
Shula - I completely don't agree with your religious worldview but I enjoyed your article. Very well written and thought out. Nice to see that for a change. The religious sectors of society could use more apologists like you to counter the ones who are less articulate.
on Apr 20, 2004
I admire someone that is so sure of their faith. Personally I have too many doubts about Christianity to be a true believer myself (I wrote a post on this a few days back.) When I talk to devout Christians like yourself I am envious, their faith is an anchor for them and something to hang on to particularly when things are not going so well. Even if I don't personally subscribe to your belief system it does not mean that I should not appreciate how real it is for you. And if you can have fun....well so much the better.....rock on!!!
on Apr 21, 2004
HeyHey -- it seems that you're wanting to pick a fight. If you're not, I apologize for misinterpreting, but one can easily misread another's comments when they're in writing, especially when that person is a stranger.

You ask about slaves. It's true that God did not outlaw slavery but did have specific instructions for the protection of slaves, including the proper treatment of them. Remember, Jews are the chosen people of God. Under Hebrew law, a person is forgiven their debt after seven years because no debt can stretched out over more than a seven year period. A person who was sold or sold themselves into slavery was doing so because they needed money, most likely to survive or pay debts. Also, a Hebrew slave was still expected to serve God and if they were paid, to tithe. Slaves to the Jews were mostly well-treated. I want you to notice that God understands our nature and will allow certain behavior due to our weaknesses if the behavior is well-guarded and fits certain moral standards. God hates divorce. But he allows it under a couple circumstances because we are weak. I think slavery is the same. Sometimes, slavery was the only way a person could live and though something not perfect, a result of our weaknesses as humans. The question about female slaves: women were very highly guarded and for good reason. Men have an eternal problem: sexual frustration to a sometimes unhealthy degree. Slaves weren't always God's people, so to protect the women, they couldn't go out with the men. When Ruth was sent out to work in the fields, (she wasn't a slave) she was protected by the owner of the field because he specifically commanded her when she could glean the wheat and that the men were to leave her be.

You asked about the Sabbath. You see, God's people were told to rest on the Sabbath because He rested on that day. The principle is this: if you rest one day of the week and work six, God will bless you and you'll get more from your six than from seven without God's blessings. And this principle has been very true in my life. Yes, the law was so important to God that he allowed for people to be put to death if they did not rest. This kept people from overworking their animals and slaves. It was merciful. You see, this law applied to slaves and animals too! People had no excuse and had great awe and respect for God's word. God knows it is right for people to have one day out of every seven free from work if they spend the other six working.

With regards to leviticus: Yes, shellfish of all types are out. (Shrimp: the cockroach of the sea!) How many people do you know that are allergic to shellfish? It's a rather common allergy. Back then, medical knowlege was VERY limited. This law protected people. Also, shellfish can carry many diseases if not properly cooked. The same thing goes for pork. This is why God prohibited this diet. One reason so many peoples hated the Jews was because they seemed to not get as sick as often as their people and they were generally more prosperous and healthy. Their diet was a huge part of this reason. God ordained a diet that kept them from sucummbing to the hazards of foods that we know much more about now. We know how to prevent getting brain worms from eating underdone pork. These laws protected a primitive society. this reasoning also explains the laws for cleanliness and even proper dishwashing techniques. It may sound harsh to you, but it is quite merciful. A child may get angry for being yelled at or even pushed down when they're about to see what happens if they stick something in an electrical outlet ... but there's a reason. Why locusts? You'll notice the verse actually says, "destroying locusts" and later includes crickets and such. Did you ever read the book The Good Earth? The book describes a situation that will probably shed light on why they were allowed to eat such things. Won Lung (forgive a possible mispelling) owns land and survives off the crops it produces. One year an enormous swarm of grasshoppers and locusts devour the crops of the people. The entire area for miles and miles is severely plagued. Dead grasshoppers are left everywhere after the tiny beasts leave. The only thing to do is to gather them up for food. There is nothing left to eat. His wife fries them up and they eat them. Won Lung couldn't stomach it, but he was grateful his wife knew how to help his family survive. Leviticus does not permit them to eat any other bugs.

Leviticus 15. Did you notice the first part of the chapter has an almost identical situation for a man with a discharge? Sounds equal and to me it sounds like another health issue. The Bible does after all call it "clean" and "unclean." It's just sanitary. Remember, people didn't have a nice shower to take back then. They mostly relied on sponge baths and bathing when necessary. Not every day for certain. This is mostly an arid climate. Not a lot of water; water was so precious. So these laws for cleanliness helped people to maintain health and sanitary conditions. Notice verse 31: Thus you shall separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness, lest they die in their uncleanness whey they defile my tabernacle that is among them. Remember, God is Holy and His tabernacle, where they worshipped Him, must be kept sanitary and spiritually clean as well.

I hope it helps. But remember this: We are no longer under the law. Jesus did not come to destroy the law but to complete the law. I'll blog on that momentarily. this is mighty long comment and will only be skimmed by most.
on Apr 22, 2004
"The rest of you guys: is it just me, or do Christians come accross on this site as no fun whatsoever? As unapproachable? As frightening even?"

Wow...I certainly HOPE I don't come across that way....I don't mean to, that's for sure. I think I'm a very fun, very approachable, not at all frightening person--except maybe to my kids, when they are in trouble.....LOL.
on Apr 22, 2004
Oh, Poetmom, you're fun! You know what I'm talking about, though, I'm sure. You're very intellegent and well-spoken and do so (I've not read a lot of your stuff -- I'm sorry) with love when I read your comments. Was this article completely for moot, though? I don't think so...
on Apr 23, 2004
"Was this article completely for moot, though? I don't think so..."

No, not at all....but perhaps you should have said "some" Christians on this site, since it's not all of us.

on Apr 23, 2004
Oh, I thought by NOT saying "all" I was implying some. I'm sorry. Point taken in love. : )